The Value Creators Podcast Episode #63. Systems Thinking in Action: Building Community-Of-Passion Based Businesses with Joe Zentmyer

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How do you build a retail business around passion—and scale it successfully? What does it mean to think in systems, not just solve problems?

In this episode of the Value Creators Podcast, Hunter Hastings speaks with serial entrepreneur Joe Zentmyer, founder of Snaggletooth Goby and builder of thriving passion communities—from indoor climbing gyms to tropical fish hobbyists and service ventures. Joe shares how he applies systems thinking, relationship-building, and detail-obsessive iteration to create businesses that endure and expand.

Key insights include:

  • Why systems—not checklists—create scalability and resilience.
  • How community, location, and hospitality converge to generate value.
  • The importance of building teams that thrive in uncertainty and complexity.

This is a hands-on masterclass in entrepreneurial systems design, filled with hard-earned lessons for anyone seeking to grow a values-driven, experience-based business.

Resources:

➡️ Learn What They Didn’t Teach You In Business School: The Value Creators Online Business Course

Connect with Joe Zentmyer on LinkedIn

Learn more about Snaggletooth Goby

Connect with Hunter Hastings on LinkedIn

Subscribe to The Value Creators on Substack

Knowledge Capsule:

1. Systems Thinking Is the Entrepreneur’s Superpower

  • Many founders jump from problem to problem without ever building a system.
  • Systems allow entrepreneurs to step back and let their business run, and not be consumed by it.
  • Joe Zentmyer emphasizes: “If there’s no process, the same problems will keep resurfacing.”

2. A Business Is a Puzzle—And Entrepreneurs Must Love Solving It

  • Joe sees his ventures as complex puzzles with interlocking systems.
  • He thrives on balancing operations, team dynamics, and creative problem solving.
  • Obsession with the system can be productive—if balanced with personal clarity.

3. From Vision to Replication: Systems Enable Scale

  • Each new climbing gym was hard, but systems made replication possible.
  • Over time, Joe built a system for teams to independently manage real estate, construction, launch, and operations.
  • Institutional knowledge—like climbing wall design and layout—became internal IP.

4. Community Is the Core of Passion-Based Businesses

  • Joe builds businesses around passionate identity: “I’m a climber,” “I’m an aquarist.”
  • Authenticity matters—customers want to be around others who feel it.
  • The best engagement comes from shared language, hospitality, and consistency.

5. Location Is Strategy

  • For niche businesses, there’s no McDonald’s-style data formula.
  • Objective factors like foot traffic combine with gut-level assessments like safety, vibe, and accessibility.
  • Joe chose sites near transit to lower costs and serve the community better.

6. Trust-Based Partnerships Enable Growth

  • Success depends on trusted relationships: real estate, contractors, investors.
  • Joe spent years assembling a reliable team across disciplines.
  • Being known for follow-through and fairness makes systems more robust.

7. Creative Problem-Solvers Are Essential

  • Early-stage ventures require improvisation and initiative, not rigid process followers.
  • Hiring for adaptability and curiosity is key during expansion and chaos.
  • “You can’t automate creative problem solving,” says Joe.

8. Marketing Passion Brands Requires Empathy and Simplicity

  • Deep experts often alienate newcomers with insider jargon.
  • Joe partners with generalist marketing firms to maintain accessibility.
  • Marketing must serve both the hardcore enthusiast and the curious beginner.

9. Experience Creates Loyalty

  • Whether climbing or aquarium care, the in-store experience is key.
  • Events, workshops, and personalized advice bind people to the brand.
  • Customers remember how they felt—and that memory drives retention.

10. Recurring Revenue Is the Engine

  • Joe looks for business models with built-in subscriptions or services.
  • Climbing gyms rely on memberships; aquariums offer in-home services.
  • This structure stabilizes cash flow and deepens engagement.

11. Systems Must Integrate with External Environments

  • Joe’s strategy adapts to zoning laws, transit incentives, and macroeconomic trends.
  • In Chicago, locating near transit hubs reduced parking costs and aligned with city planning.
  • Entrepreneurs must plug into broader institutional systems intelligently.

12. The Founder Needs a System, Too

  • Joe carves out time weekly for reading, writing, and system-level reflection.
  • He warns against being consumed by the business’s internal systems at the cost of personal well-being.
  • Sustainable entrepreneurship requires a personal system for focus and renewal.

The Value Creators Podcast Episode #62. Choose the Handle That Holds. Stoic Leadership and Everyday Integrity: A Conversation with Becky Schmooke

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How we lead is who we are.

In this episode of the Value Creators Podcast, Hunter Hastings speaks with Becky Schmooke—entrepreneur, leadership coach, and author of Choose the Handle That Holds. Becky shares how the system of philosophy we label as Stoic generates practical tools for leadership, self-awareness, and resilience. Rather than hierarchical leadership vested with titles and administrative control, Becky proposes a more human vision of leadership: grounded in personal values, emotional clarity, and active participation.

Key themes include:

  • Why authority and leadership are not the same—and how leadership is a lifestyle, not a position.
  • How Stoicism reframes control, responsibility, and purpose in business and life.
  • What it means to “choose the handle that holds”—and how to build emotional intelligence through action, not theory.

This conversation is a guide for anyone who wants to lead with clarity, build resilient organizations, and live aligned with their deepest values.

Resources:

➡️ Learn What They Didn’t Teach You In Business School: The Value Creators Online Business Course

Buy Becky’s book: Choose The Handle That Holds

Learn more about Becky Schmooke

Connect with Becky Schmooke on LinkedIn

Connect with Hunter Hastings on LinkedIn

Subscribe to The Value Creators on Substack

Knowledge Capsule:

1. Leadership is Who You Are, Not your position or title

  • Leadership is often misdefined as authority or power tied to position.
  • True leadership is available to everyone, regardless of rank or role.
  • It’s who you are and how you turn up every day
  • Great leaders are also great followers—engaged, empathetic, and collaborative.

2. Teams Should Be Made of Leaders

  • Hierarchical models miss the value of shared leadership and active participation.
  • Individuals in high-performing teams, like Olympic athletes, take turns leading based on context.
  • “Followership” is powerful when it means knowing when to support and when to step up.

3. Choose the Handle That Holds

  • As described by the stoic philosopher Epictetus, each situation has two “handles”—ways to approach it.
  • The “handle that holds” is integrity, courage, and ownership—not blame or denial.
  • Leaders who choose the right handle foster resilience and long-term trust.

4. Integrity Requires Personal Definition

  • Integrity isn’t one-size-fits-all; it depends on your individual values.
  • Defining what matters helps guide decision-making under pressure.
  • Businesses without this clarity often chase hollow definitions of success.

5. The Four Stoic Virtues are Practical Anchors

  • Wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance shape steady, resilient action.
  • These values ground behavior and decision-making amid external chaos.
  • For example, temperance (moderation) keeps us focused on long-term process over short-term wins.

6. Values-Driven Business Builds Market Trust

  • Living your values builds credibility with customers, employees, and partners.
  • Consumers reward integrity and are more forgiving of missteps when trust is earned.
  • Purposeful entrepreneurs create subjective value that the market recognizes.

7. Control is Internal, Not External

  • Stoicism teaches us to distinguish between what we can and cannot control.
  • In business, focusing too much on outcomes breeds anxiety and inefficiency.
  • Small, consistent actions aligned with values are more impactful than rigid plans.

8. Planning Must Be Flexible and Purpose-Driven

  • Plans aren’t inherently bad, but rigid ones can trap organizations.
  • Stoic-inspired planning involves adaptation, feedback, and clear purpose.
  • The real test is knowing when to stay the course—and when to shift it.

9. Purpose Should Anchor Personal and Business Life

  • Individual purpose must be discovered and aligned with everyday actions.
  • Companies can also have purpose—if it’s lived, not just printed on a wall.
  • Purpose sustains integrity under pressure and fuels long-term innovation.

10. Hierarchies Can Work—If Culture is Right

  • Flat organizations are inspiring but hard to scale; hierarchy isn’t inherently bad.
  • What matters is cultural leadership at every level—ownership, not obedience.
  • Debriefs, shared accountability, and transparency help flatten behaviorally, if not structurally.

11. Stoicism is Emotional, Not Emotionless

  • Big-S Stoicism engages deeply with emotions—it doesn’t suppress them.
  • Emotions are data; curiosity is the default reflex for emotional intelligence.
  • A “leadership reflex” (like the parenting car-arm) pauses reaction and invites insight.

12. Unshakable Purpose is the Supreme Aspiration

  • Seneca said it best: our longing is to be “not shaken” by events.
  • That inner steadiness is the outcome of living Stoic values every day.
  • Leaders who cultivate this internal strength create enduring impact in uncertain environments.

The Value Creators Podcast Episode #61. Democratizing Alternative Investments Through Innovation, Liquidity, and Design: A Conversation with Kim Flynn

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The term alternative investments refers to investment opportunities that the financial regulators want to preserve for financial elites and protect from the average “retail investor” like you and me. They’re investments like venture capital, private equity, and hedge funds. They’re too sophisticated for individuals who are not “accredited”. These potentially high-yielding investments must be fenced off from broad accessibility. Too risky for the plebes.

But, despite the regulators, financial markets are evolving to make alternative investments more accessible, liquid, and tailored to individual investors. How do you design products that combine institutional sophistication with retail access—without compromising on structure, performance, or trust? Through customer-centric design: knowing customers well and giving them access to products that meet their needs and give them new choices.

In this episode of the Value Creators Podcast, Hunter Hastings talks with Kim Flynn, President of XA Investments, a pioneer in private market innovation and product design. Kim shares how her firm is breaking down barriers in the investment landscape, from new fund structures to investor education and cutting-edge indexes.

Key insights include:

  • Why the term “alternatives” is evolving into a broader concept of private markets.
  • How products like interval funds and tender offer funds balance liquidity and long-term investing.
  • The importance of demand-focused product design and timing innovation to market needs.
  • How educational tools like the XAI Interval Fund Index create transparency and drive adoption.
  • Why creativity, empathy, and structured iteration are critical in financial product innovation.

Whether you’re an investor looking to access private equity or a product builder seeking to serve new markets, this episode provides a playbook for innovation at the intersection of finance, entrepreneurship, and education.

Learn how venture-mode creativity is coming to financial markets—and how the next generation of investment products will empower everyone.

Resources:

➡️ Learn What They Didn’t Teach You In Business School: The Value Creators Online Business Course

Learn more about XMS Capital

Connect with Kim Flynn on LinkedIn

Connect with Hunter Hastings on LinkedIn

Subscribe to The Value Creators on Substack

Knowledge Capsule:

1. Alternative Investments Are Expanding and Being Redefined

  • “Alternatives” once referred to hedge funds or private equity but now include private credit, real estate, infrastructure, and even crypto.
  • Many industry players now prefer the term “private markets” to reflect a broader and more modern interpretation.
  • As access increases, the need for clearer, investor-friendly labels grows.

2. Private Markets Are Changing the Capital Landscape

  • A stock market listing, via IPO, was once seen as the pinnacle of achievement for private companies.
  • But today, companies are staying private longer, reducing access to high-growth phases for public investors.
  • Similarly, in lending markets, private credit is stepping in where traditional banks have pulled back from corporate lending.
  • Private capital offers flexible, often more patient financing, altering the borrower-lender dynamic.

3. Liquidity Is a Growing Concern in Private Investing

  • While private equity offers higher returns, it often locks up capital for 10+ years.
  • Innovations like continuation funds and secondaries provide new, more flexible exit paths
  • Even “patient capital” has limits when liquidity needs arise.

4. Public Markets Face Pressure from Unicorns and Grey Share Markets

  • Many leading companies now remain private well into maturity, prompting the rise of unicorn indexes and grey markets for pre-IPO shares.
  • Liquidity for employees and early investors in private companies is becoming a key opportunity.
  • The S&P 500 is no longer the full picture of economic growth or opportunity.

5. The Democratization of Alternatives Is Underway

  • Institutional-style products like private equity and venture capital are becoming accessible to retail investors.
  • Structures like interval funds enable access while balancing liquidity needs and regulatory safeguards.
  • This shift is transforming the average retirement portfolio beyond traditional stocks and bonds.

6. Interval Funds and Tender Offer Funds Are Innovating Liquidity Models

  • Interval funds offer limited, scheduled liquidity (e.g., 5% quarterly), making private markets more flexible for investors.
  • Tender offer funds provide flexibility to pause redemptions, offering sponsors greater control in volatile markets.
  • These funds balance access with asset-specific constraints, like long hold periods in private equity.

7. Infrastructure and Custody Challenges Still Exist

  • Custody issues, tax complications, and minimum investment thresholds are barriers for many retail investors. K1’s add a level of tax complexity not everyone wants!
  • New fund structures and registered product formats aim to lower these barriers.
  • Major alternative asset managers are investing heavily in education and infrastructure to improve access.

8. Demand-Focused Product Design Drives Innovation

  • Products are created with market timing, investor demand, and differentiation in mind.
  • Examples like Janus Henderson’s CLO ETF show that early movers gain a durable competitive edge.
  • Product timing, market gaps, and liquidity needs all shape product strategy.

9. Education and Knowledge Flow Are Core Differentiators

  • XA Investments emphasizes educating both investors and asset managers through resources, indexes, and consulting.
  • The XAI Interval Fund Index is an example of education-led innovation, helping demystify a complex market.
  • Knowledge is positioned as a strategic asset for investors that reduces barriers and increases adoption.

10. Product Development Requires Structured, Iterative Processes

  • XA’s product development model is rooted in structured processes learned from successful institutions like Nuveen.
  • Products begin with identified market needs and proceed through regulatory, operational, and strategic filters.
  • XA also provides design consultancy – which, as an added competitive advantage, enables younger employees to iterate faster and gain deep expertise in fund design.

11. Strategic Differentiation Matters in a Crowded Market

  • First-mover advantage is real in products like ETFs, but other success factors include education, structure, and access.
  • Success in private markets depends on matching product structure to asset class, including knowing when not to launch.
  • Innovation isn’t just about product type and features—it includes process, distribution, and user experience.

12. Innovation in Financial Products is Creative and Entrepreneurial

  • Financial innovation involves design thinking, empathy, and continuous iteration—just like any other form of entrepreneurship.
  • XA Investments combines institutional rigor with agile, entrepreneurial thinking to fill gaps in evolving markets.
  • The future of finance is being built by those who understand both the investor and the ecosystem.

The Value Creators Podcast Episode #60. How to Master Entrepreneurship Through Imagination, Value Creation, and Market Disruption: A Conversation with Per Bylund

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How does entrepreneurship truly drive economic growth, and why is it often ignored in mainstream economic models? What role does imagination play in creating market-changing value?

In this episode of the Value Creators Podcast, Hunter Hastings is joined by Per Bylund, professor, author, and one of the leading voices in Austrian economics. Per introduces a radically dynamic model of entrepreneurship based on his new book, Entrepreneurship and Evolutionary Economics.

Key insights include:

  • Why modern economics has pushed entrepreneurship to the margins—and why that’s a mistake.
  • The difference between creating knowledge and creating value.
  • Why entrepreneurial success depends on imagination, empathy, and experimentation.
  • How the infeasibility zone traps safe innovators—and how to leap past it.
  • Bylund’s three models of entrepreneurship, culminating in Model 3, where entrepreneurs reshape markets.
  • The importance of institutional support—and the dangers of policy overreach.

This episode redefines entrepreneurship not as a function of business plans or investment capital, but as an imaginative, value-creating force that reshapes the economy from within. If you want to understand how real economic growth happens, this conversation is essential.

Resources:

➡️ Learn What They Didn’t Teach You In Business School: The Value Creators Online Business Course

Read this episode’s Knowledge Capulse at thevaluecreators.com

Check out Per Bylund’s Latest Book: Entrepreneurship In Evolutionary Economics

Read Per Bylund’s Book: How To Think About The Economy

Read Per Bylund on The Economic Damage Caused by Regulation: The Seen, The Unseen And The Unrealized

Follow with Per Bylund on X: @PerBylund

Connect with Per Byklund on LinkedIn

Connect with Hunter Hastings on LinkedIn

The Value Creators on Substack

Knowledge Capsule:

1. Entrepreneurship Has Been Erased from Mainstream Economics

  • Modern economics focuses heavily on predictive models and statistics, which exclude the unpredictable, creative nature of entrepreneurship.
  • Historically, economists like Schumpeter and Baumol emphasized entrepreneurs as central to economic dynamics, but their insights are largely ignored (or misinterpreted) by mainstream economists today.
  • Entrepreneurship doesn’t fit cleanly into mathematical equations, so it’s often relegated to the “error term” in economic models.

2. Entrepreneurship is a Value-Creation Process, Not Just Innovation

  • Entrepreneurs don’t just produce new things—they create new value in ways that weren’t previously recognized.
  • Value is determined after the fact by whether consumers choose to purchase and use the product.
  • The true test of entrepreneurial success is consumer response, not just the act of creating something new.

3. Value is Discovered, Not Predicted

  • Entrepreneurs cannot know value ahead of time—they must imagine what could be valued by customers and test it in the marketplace.
  • Even with data and pattern detection, customer preferences are fluid and unpredictable.
  • Market value is revealed only after the product is offered and accepted by customers.

4. Imaginative Value Creation is Central to Entrepreneurship

  • Entrepreneurs use empathy and imagination to envision solutions consumers don’t yet know they need.
  • Great entrepreneurship often involves creating demand, not just responding to it (e.g., when Henry Ford offered customers a car vs. “faster horses”).
  • This imaginative leap defines true innovation and market disruption.

5. Disruption Happens Without Warning

  • Stable industries can be overturned by innovations that originate outside their traditional space.
  • Users once prized and used paper maps. Those have largely disappeared, replaced by GPS navigation systems in cars and on smartphones.Navigation systems are an “adjacent innovation”. These can render existing products obsolete overnight by meeting an important need in a new way.
  • Entrepreneurs must be on guard for disruptions—even when things seem stable.

6. Evolutionary Economics Must Include Imagination

  • Evolutionary economics values change and complexity but often overemphasizes knowledge accumulation. Knowledge accumulation is not enough.
  • Bylund argues that entrepreneurs create value, not just knowledge, and that value emerges from human imagination.
  • Economic progress is dynamic, driven by creative acts rather than predictable knowledge gains.

7. Bylund’s Three Models of Entrepreneurship

  • Model 1: Static production and consumption with price-driven resource allocation.
  • Model 2: Includes external (exogenous) changes like shifting resources or preferences.
  • Model 3: Fully dynamic and endogenous—entrepreneurs change the system itself through innovation. This is the entrepreneurial mode of economic growth.

8. The Infeasibility Zone and the Risk of Playing It Safe

  • Incremental innovation often keeps entrepreneurs in a crowded, competitive space.
  • Radical value creation requires leaping beyond conventional thinking, even when feasibility is uncertain.
  • The “infeasibility zone” is where ideas are too safe to stand out and too weak to disrupt.

9. Value Calculus: The Core Entrepreneurial Discipline

  • Entrepreneurs must understand the relationship: Value > Price > Cost.
  • Entrepreneurs don’t set prices by adding a margin to their costs (“cost-plus” pricing). They create a value for which the customer is willing to pay, and then choose costs that are compatible with making a profit.
  • They don’t price without first estimating value, and they don’t incur cost without first estimating the price the customer is willing to pay. This reverse logic is key.
  • Starting with cost-plus pricing leads to poor outcomes; entrepreneurs must begin with value imagination.

10. Institutions Enable or Restrain Entrepreneurship

  • Supportive institutions (e.g., private property, contracts, and keeping contractual commitments) create the environment for entrepreneurship to flourish.
  • Oppressive institutions and intrusive regulations distort markets and reduce entrepreneurial freedom.
  • Institutions are shaped by and evolve with entrepreneurial behavior.

11. Policy Cannot Create Value-Driven Entrepreneurship

  • Governments may fund large-scale projects, but these are often inefficient and lack market validation.
  • True entrepreneurial innovation happens in response to consumer needs, not top-down spending.
  • Opportunity costs of government spending are often ignored, diminishing true value creation.

12. The Market Process is Competitive, Creative, and Uncertain

  • Entrepreneurs constantly compete for resources by envisioning more valuable uses than others.
  • This drives a decentralized and dynamic allocation of capital toward the most value-generating activities.
  • The market, through price and consumer feedback, is the ultimate test of entrepreneurial imagination.

The Value Creators Podcast Episode #59. How to Build a Self-Managed Organization: A Conversation with Doug Kirkpatrick

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Can companies operate effectively without bosses, titles, or hierarchies? How can organizations empower employees to take full ownership of their roles while maintaining accountability and productivity?

In this episode of the Value Creators Podcast, Hunter Hastings speaks with Doug Kirkpatrick, author of The No Limits Enterprise and a pioneer of self-management. Doug shares his experience implementing self-management at The Morning Star Company, a firm that scaled successfully without traditional managers or management.

Key insights include:

  • The two core principles that enable a self-managed organization: no coercion and keeping commitments.
  • How the Colleague Letter of Understanding (CLOU) replaces job descriptions and performance reviews.
  • Why bureaucratic hierarchies are outdated and how eliminating them enhances agility and innovation.
  • The evolving role of leadership as facilitators rather than controllers.
  • The connection between self-management, trust, and high business performance.
  • How AI and digital transformation are making self-management more relevant than ever.

For business leaders, entrepreneurs, and anyone looking to rethink traditional management, this episode offers a compelling look at the future of work. Discover how to transition from a control-based hierarchy to a high-trust, self-managed enterprise.

Resources:

➡️ Learn What They Didn’t Teach You In Business School: The Value Creators Online Business Course

Connect with Doug on LinkedIn

Read Doug’s Blog on “The Future of Work”

Get Doug’s Book The No-Limits Enterprise

Read Morning Star’s Success Story

Connect with Hunter Hastings on LinkedIn

The Value Creators on Substack

Knowledge Capsule:

1. The Concept of Self-Management in Organizations

  • Self-management eliminates traditional hierarchies, empowering employees to operate autonomously.
  • It shifts decision-making authority from managers to individuals who have the most direct information.
  • This model fosters a high level of accountability and engagement among employees.

2. The Origins of Self-Management at The Morning Star Company

  • The company was built on two core principles: no coercion and keeping commitments.
  • Employees negotiated their roles and responsibilities, replacing the need for managers.
  • The system proved highly effective, leading to The Morning Star Company’’s emergence as the leading self-managed enterprise.

3. The Traditional Management Hierarchy has outlined its usefulness

  • Modern corporate management evolved from 19th-century Prussian Military organization and rigid command-and-control methodologies designed to prevent railway accidents by taking away all judgment and discretion from operators.
  • Bureaucratic hierarchies, initially designed for efficiency, have become barriers to innovation and responsiveness.
  • Employees on the frontlines often have the best information but are constrained by rigid decision-making structures.

4. Individual Autonomy is the New Source Of Power and Energy in Business

  • Workers make complex life decisions (marriage, finances, education) without a boss—why not at work?
  • Empowering employees to act autonomously unlocks creativity, problem-solving, and ownership.
  • Organizations benefit from increased agility and reduced micromanagement.

5. Commitment is the key

  • Agreements between colleagues replace traditional job descriptions and performance reviews.
  • Employees voluntarily commit to responsibilities, creating accountability without the need for managerial oversight.
  • The key is to negotiate these mutual responsibilities in complete detail and precision so that each party knows exactly what is expected with no grey area.
  • A culture of trust and mutual reliance emerges from these agreements.

6. The Colleague Letter of Understanding (CLOU)

  • The CLOU is a self-negotiated document detailing an employee’s responsibilities and decision-making authority.
  • It aligns personal goals with company objectives, reinforcing the principles of self-management.
  • This system builds a resilient, adaptable organizational structure.

7. The Elimination of Bureaucracy

  • Traditional bureaucratic layers create inefficiency and stifle innovation.
  • Self-managed companies reduce or eliminate unnecessary administrative burdens.
  • Compliance with external regulations remains, but internal red tape is minimized.

8. Leaders don’t control, they facilitate

  • Leaders in self-managed organizations act as mentors and facilitators rather than decision-makers.
  • They focus on creating environments where employees thrive rather than directing their work.
  • This shift enhances problem-solving capabilities and employee engagement.

9. Self-Managed Enterprises Work Because of Trust

  • Trust is fundamental to successful self-management, replacing control-based oversight.
  • Employees must honor their commitments, fostering a culture of reliability and performance.
  • Organizations that master trust-building gain a significant competitive advantage.

10. Self-Managed Organizations are High-Performance

  • Companies with strong self-management principles achieve high performance and resilience.
  • Employees take ownership of their roles, improving efficiency and innovation.
  • The model enhances customer satisfaction by empowering employees to make direct decisions.

11. Self-Management is right for the Age of AI and Digital Work

  • Traditional management structures will struggle to keep up with AI and digital transformation.
  • Self-managed systems integrate seamlessly with AI tools, leveraging technology for individual decision-making.
  • The future of work is shifting toward more decentralized, autonomous structures.

12. How to Implement Self-Management in a Traditional Organization

  • Start with a small experiment or a single business unit before scaling.
  • Secure leadership buy-in and ensure alignment with core company values.
  • Foster a culture of transparency, trust, and accountability to support the transition.

The Value Creators Podcast Episode #58. How to Recognize and Overcome Selfish Leadership: A Conversation with Josefine Campbell

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What if the traditional view of leadership—an individual who is assertively bold, visionary, and all-powerful—was actually harmful? What if leadership is not about commanding authority but interpersonal relationships, collaboration, self-awareness, and authenticity?

In this episode of the Value Creators Podcast, Hunter Hastings speaks with Josefine Campbell, international business coach and author of 12 Tools for Managing a Selfish Leader: Unlocking Authenticity for Resilience. Josefine shares how toxic leadership dynamics can damage organizations and individuals—and how employees and leaders alike can protect themselves and build resilience.

Key insights include:

  • Why the traditional leadership myth is outdated and how a more human-centered approach is needed.
  • How selfish leaders manipulate employees and erode company culture.
  • The role of energy management in maintaining resilience against toxic leadership.
  • Why self-awareness and authenticity are essential for outstanding leadership.
  • The importance of corporate culture in preventing toxic leadership behaviors.
  • Practical tools like the Awareness Matrix and Values Lighthouse to help individuals navigate difficult leadership situations.

Whether you’re a leader striving to improve or an employee dealing with a challenging manager, this episode offers valuable tools to foster authenticity, resilience, and ethical leadership. Learn how to protect yourself from toxic leadership and embrace a leadership model that works for the 21st century.

Resources:

➡️ Learn What They Didn’t Teach You In Business School: The Value Creators Online Business Course

Visit josefinecampbell.com

Connect with Josefine on LinkedIn

Sign Up To Josefine’s Newsletter

Check Out Josefine’s books:

12 Tools for Managing a Selfish Leader

Power Barometer: How To Manage Personal Energy For Business Success

Connect with Hunter Hastings on LinkedIn

The Value Creators on Substack

Knowledge Capsule:

1. Rethinking Leadership: Moving Beyond Traditional Views

  • Traditional leadership is often portrayed as visionary individuals with bold strategies guiding organizations.
  • This myth creates unrealistic expectations and often leads to toxic leadership styles.
  • True leadership is more collaborative, human-centered, and rooted in interpersonal relationships.

2. The Role of Personal Presence in Leadership

  • Leadership is personal—your voice, demeanor, and authenticity impact how people follow you.
  • Strategies and visions only succeed if they are effectively communicated and embraced by people.
  • Leadership is not about enforcing authority but about inspiring and motivating individuals.

3. The Persistence of Hierarchy in Business Organizations

  • Despite experiments with alternative structures, hierarchy remains the dominant organizational model.
  • Matrix structures, self-managed organizations, and agile methods have been explored but come with their own challenges.
  • Future organizational models need to balance flexibility with the need for clarity and coordination.

4. The Pitfalls of Decision-Making in Leadership

  • Leaders must make tough decisions under uncertainty, often facing disagreement.
  • Data-driven decision-making is important but insufficient; intuition and empathy play critical roles.
  • Leaders must navigate complex trade-offs and avoid becoming emotionally detached.

5. The Problem of Selfish Leadership in Organizations

  • Some leaders prioritize personal gain over team success, leading to manipulation and toxic work environments.
  • Selfish leaders lack genuine empathy but can be highly strategic in influencing others.
  • They negatively impact company culture, employee engagement, and long-term business performance.

6. The Impact of Selfish Leadership on Team Members

  • Employees often feel trapped in toxic leadership environments, leading to stress and disengagement.
  • Recognizing manipulative behaviors is crucial to protecting personal well-being.
  • Employees can develop resilience and coping strategies to navigate difficult leadership dynamics.

7. Managing Energy as a Defense Against Toxic Leadership

  • Energy management is essential for resilience, as dealing with selfish leaders is emotionally draining.
  • Leaders and employees must maintain energy balance through rest, nutrition, and positive activities.
  • Recognizing personal energy levels helps individuals stay focused and avoid burnout.

8. The Power of Self-Awareness in Leadership

  • Self-awareness is a key factor in effective leadership and emotional intelligence.
  • Leaders who reflect on their behaviors and decisions foster healthier work environments.
  • Employees can use self-awareness to recognize when they are being manipulated and respond accordingly.

9. The Importance of Authenticity in Leadership

  • Authentic leaders align their actions with their values and beliefs.
  • Discovering and embracing core values helps leaders make better decisions and inspire others.
  • Authenticity fosters trust, collaboration, and long-term effectiveness in leadership roles.

10. Navigating Ethical Dilemmas in Leadership

  • Leaders often face situations where they must compromise values or make morally challenging decisions.
  • Understanding one’s values and ethical boundaries is crucial for maintaining integrity.
  • Having the moral courage to stand by ethical principles is essential for long-term success.

11. Corporate Culture as a Defense Against Toxic Leadership

  • Organizations must establish clear behavioral norms and expectations for leaders.
  • Companies with well-defined cultural values (e.g., IKEA, Novo Nordisk) are more resistant to toxic leadership.
  • Aligning leadership evaluations with company culture ensures accountability.

12. Practical Tools for Overcoming Toxic Leadership

  • Tools like the Awareness Matrix help individuals navigate difficult leadership dynamics.
  • The Values Lighthouse Exercise aids in identifying and prioritizing personal values.
  • Developing self-awareness, adaptability, and resilience helps individuals manage workplace challenges effectively.